The old cheap oil debate.

[tractorman]

Even though my Golf is only doing four or five thousand miles a year, it gets changed annually. That's a 2002 PD engine with 10K (or more) oil changes specified in the handbook, which also states annual changes if the car does less than 10K pa. In the PD engine's case, cheap oil isn't an option - when I bought it, only VW and Comma made suitable oil and there are/were dire warnings about using the correct oil on the VW owner's club website (and any VW expert I know).

OK, the Golf is only nine, but the principle is much the same - it gets changed at least once a year, regardless of mileage. However, I would normally change the oil between five and seven thousand miles. I would, like TerryG, suggest a similar rule is followed with classic cars (as with my classic tractors): change the oil more frequently than the recommended interval and at least once a year! As an old mechanic once said to me: oil's a lot cheaper than an engine!

The tractors get what suitable oil I can find, though the Fergy gets Halford's at the moment as I rebuilt the engine four or five years ago and want to look after it. Cheap oil more often is the best way and, as some have said, the cheap oils don't always contain the best additives (as mentioned in an article in PC a year or two ago). I don't think any supermarket will actually say "our oils are cheap and low quality", so I take their claims with a large pinch of salt (which I don't eat!).

Remember, changing the oil doesn't only get rid of the solid matter, there are acids in the old oil that need removing on a regular basis.

To prove me a hypocrate: the oil wouldn't come out of the "new" tractor last autumn (it was OK the first time I changed it - two years earlier) - the drain hole was blocked with muck, as was the gauze filter on the pump (it looked like someone had rolled a tennis ball in waste oil), and there was an inch-thick layer of crud inside the sump!

[Dave3066]

I've always changed the oil and filter earlier than the manufacturers recommendation, even on a modern car (although the last modern car I had was a '99 Vectra). I use my P6 every day and there's some pretty conclusive evidence that the type of oil used can have a major effect on the wear rate of the camshaft and followers so the oil and filter gets changed every 3K miles. I've tried various brands. Most recently I was using Halfords Classic until I found out it doesn't have the right amount of ZDDP for my V8 engine so I've switched to Millers (which does). I've bought a years supply of the stuff and a years supply of filters too. Buying in bulk drops the price by about half so it's pretty cheap really. 25 litres of Millers Classic 20W-50 for about £100 is £4 a litre against Halfords Classic at about £16 for 5 litres, or £3.2 per litre and I don't have to rush out and buy it when the next oil change is due.

If I was running a car simply to keep it going and run it into the ground then yes I'd buy cheap and run it long, but a classic car is for life so it needs to be looked after a bit better than that (IMHO). Small price to pay for keeping these cars healthy and reliable.

Dave

[TriumphDriver]

I've always believed in regular oil changes. Oil is cheaper to replace than bearings. I've had cars fall apart around the engine, which was almost mint (should have bought Waxoyl as well as engine oil ) and my current Landrover gets a change every 12 months while the Triumphs get new oil after the winter layup, around the same 12 months but regardless of mileage which can be as low as 500 miles. I don't trust it after it's been sitting still in a garage for three to four months.
I used cheap oil once, and that was on a Maestro with a bad leak - I was driving up the M6 and every service area required another litre of oil. The guy behind the counter even commented that I didn't like my engine much...
Each to his own method, but I prefer to use a good oil, such as Castrol GTX, and replace regularly. My local Makro had it on special offer a while ago, £7 for four litres, so not a huge expenditure. Only once have I ever used an expensive synthetic oil, on a Ford engine, and that was £26 for five litres. I sold the car within a year so didn't see how long it would last.

[M Paul Lloyd]

As a rule of thumb 100% synthetic oil lasts the longest, up to twice as long as cheaper blended varieties, Halfords 5W/40 Fully Synthetic Oil and MOBIL 1 - 5W30 ESP fall into the 100% category and which are made from the Group IV - V man-made base stock oil.

The rest (which includes most of those that are available on the high street) are made from highly refined crude based synthetic oils and fluids or blends that use synthetic oils which are man-made.
Mobil One, Valvoline DuraBlend and Castrol GTX, fall into the highly refined crude oil types called Group III base stock.

Bear in mind that having the word 'synthetic' on the can doesn't mean it is made from 100% (Group IV-V) synthetic base stock, a court ruling in the US made it possible to use the word 'synthetic' as a brand name rather than a technical description.

As to whether this makes one better than the other in the long run, that's surely down to what vehicle you own, how it is driven and how often you change that oil?

You also have to be aware that the big companies make many seemingly different types of oil (that all basically do the same job) to fill shelf space and push rival brands aside.

[Joloke]

I Dont have a classic at present but the last one i had was a little Rover Mini with an AP Automatic gearbox
They reckoned you should of changed the Oil every 6.000 miles but everybody i spoke to in the Mini scene said 3.000 miles changes if it was an Automatic Mini

When i first got the car through a dealer it was a trade in and the dealer very kindly changed the oil using expensive fully synthetic unfortunately i later learned that the A Series Auto doesnt like Synthetic Oil

Neither do they like Flushing oil

And will generally leak if you use 10w40

I ended up having to get a gearbox rebuild in the end and the rebuilder told me to use 20w50 mineral and said he always used Valvolene VR1 20w50 mineral

From then on until i sold the car thats what i used and would change it every 3.000miles

Unlike other Oils ive used it always looked as clean when i drained it as when i filled it,prior to that id been using Duckhams Q after draining the dealer filled Synthetic,the Duckhams was ok but got dirty quite quickly and appeared to use oil whereas the Valvolene never seemed to use any

I did use asda 20w50 oil every so often as a flushing agent before refilling with Valvolene.

i did find though the car allways ran better and more smoothly with 20w50 you would have to run it to temperature otherwise the box would change gear very slowely I was later told by several Metro Auto Enthusiasts they used Morris 15w40 which neither leaked and warm up wasnt necessary and the gears never slipped either

As the car was up for sale and the oil had only just been changed i never tried this so ill never know for sure

I dont know how true it is but ive heard that cheapy supermarket oil is recycled waste oil?

One thing i have noted supermarket oil always seemed darker in colour,denser rarther like it had already gone partially dirty?

I doubt ill ever have another Mini again im after a Mercedes 190e now but though oil changes on that are probably not necessary quite so often i will probably still do the changes on that every 6.000 or so and use a quality oil like Castrol or Mobil 1 i may even go back to Valvolene

In responce to the Original Poster Were not all Gents on here
Well at least i wasnt last time i checked

Jodie

[JPB]

....I dont know how true it is but ive heard that cheapy supermarket oil is recycled waste oil?

It is, but then most oils have some reclaimed content as it's apparently cheaper to squeeze the stuff out of a cormorant than it is to drill it out of the sea bed.
The Morris oil will probably be the one that's specifically aimed at AP autos in A and E series cars, it contains an EP (Extreme Pressure) additive, though I'm not quite sure why an epicyclic transmission would need one.

Any oil that comes out as clean as it went in isn't doing its job properly!

[Joloke]

Any oil that comes out as clean as it went in isn't doing its job properly!

Well maybe not as clean but i guess what i mean was others ive used have tended to look like theyve been in there for longer whereas the valvolene seems to stay looking new for longer if that makes any sence?

And the engine seemed to like it to

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Well maybe not as clean but i guess what i mean was others ive used have tended to look like theyve been in there for longer whereas the valvolene seems to stay looking new for longer if that makes any sence?

Are you sure that wasn't down to other factors - like any work you'd done on the car in the meantime?
I ask because some engines seem to keep the oil looking cleaner than others, regardless of brand. My Rover 2000TC, for example, barely discolours the oil at all, but its previous, less healthy, engine darkened the oil within weeks.

[mr rusty]

In a good condition engine it should come out more or less as clean as it goes in! When I had my BX diesel the oil used to go black within days...but then it did have over a quarter million miles on the dial: the wifes 'orrible modern common rail diesel however has only 80000 on it, and the oil comes out pretty much as it went in: if it started coming out dirty I'd be worried.

Any modern engine oil, wether it's a supermarket cheapo or a hideously expensive fully synthetic, will be much much better than anything that was available when My Vitesse rolled out of Canley in 1968, so on that basis I'm quite happy to use a supermarket oil!!

[Paul240480]

I always thought that if an oil went black over time it was doing its job? As in taking any 'baddies' out of the engine to keep it clean & that the reccomended change interval was an estimated time that the oil will have reached it's 'capacity' or the limit of its effectiveness?. Of all the cars I've owned the oil has always been black at 'change time'