The old cheap oil debate.

[s-type]

Gents I think we all know each other round here well enough to debate cheap oil and expensive oil.

Ok so when it comes to oil in a classic I hope we are all using 20/50 (or 20/winter50) unless you have a 1940’s steam tractor or something! Even then you may benefit from changing the SAE30 to 20/50…. I assume we all understand that 6 months, 3 thousand miles changes are no longer needed. We all change our oil yearly, maybe at 6-10K miles.

You have 3 choices,

Supermarket cheapness, Tesco, Morrisons, Asda, Wilkinsons. About £7 for 5 Litres.

there are the mid range classic oils from Halfords, Comma, Castrol. About £17 for 5 Litres

Then finally prestige blends like Millers, Morris Pentright About £20+ for 5 litres

All of these oils comply to the same SAE standard, or they cant be called 20/50, they all seem to comply to the additive standard for 20/50, they all look and smell about the same…. But some come in nicer boxes.

So, Why the hell am I putting £17 Comma Classic in my 67 S-Type? When Tesco’s £6 is the same?

Here is my opinion.
I am going to use Comma Classic or Halfords etc on my 67 S-Type, because its had an engine rebuild and spending an extra £20 each year to know that I have given my £3K engine rebuild the best chances of survival is worth it. I don’t think its worth putting the more expensive custom blend oils in…(mainly because the machine shop said not to)

HOWEVER on my DS420 Hearse, (same engine, XK Jaguar/ Daimler) but not rebuilt and a bit of a rough smoker of unknown history, I am going to use Wilkinsons £6.99 stuff. My rational is that its an old smoker anyway and I am not sure how much longer it will last so saving £20 a year is worth a pop. I think it’s currently got 15/40 in it! So that can go for a start!

That’s the game I am going to play, what will other people do?

[mr rusty]

Cheap'n'cheerful for me- but then I do read the label to check and compare specs, and I can't see what I'm getting extra for a £20 premium brand.

I suppose it's the same as the painkiller market, some people will buy the heavily tv advertised brands, some will buy supermarket generic, a world of difference pricewise but both the same product when you check the label.

[TerryG]

I use morris 20/50 in my morris (hehe) No idea what it costs, when i moved house last year there were 3 cans of it (new and sealed) in the garage so i'm using that at the mo (in the last 12 months the car has done about 20 miles)
I put Castrol 10/40 in my range although i have been told "that engine was designed for 20/50 so you should use that"

I always feel like i'm looking after the car better if i put "better quality" oil in it.

[Luxobarge]

I assume we all understand that 6 months, 3 thousand miles changes are no longer needed.

You assume wrongly - two of my cars specify 3,000 mile changes and that's what they get. I do let it go for more than 6 months though, I do believe that's not necessary. Basically, you can't change the oil often enough.

I avoid cheapy oils, but I'm more than happy with the mid-range types that you suggest.

[s-type]

I assume we all understand that 6 months, 3 thousand miles changes are no longer needed.

You assume wrongly - two of my cars specify 3,000 mile changes and that's what they get. I do let it go for more than 6 months though, I do believe that's not necessary. Basically, you can't change the oil often enough.

I avoid cheapy oils, but I'm more than happy with the mid-range types that you suggest.

They specified that because in the olden days the oils were not as good (stabilisers, additives, mono-grade... ) and for example you needed a "w" oil in the cold seasons etc... I don't see any proof that 3000 mile oil changes does any good, other than cost you twice as much! Hmmm I wonder why the oil manufactures said for the manufactures to recommend that...

Why do modern cars that use the same oil and even the same engine as our classics say every 12 months? So lets take my cars 1967 S-type, 3000 miles on SAE 30(w winter) and different grades for hot weather ... 1977 DS420, same engine, same oil (20/50) every 12 months!!!!! This car and engine was made till 1992 and Jaguar changed its advice with the oil If they made Midgets today i bet they would say 20/50 every 12 months!!!!

Interestingly the cheapo Wilkinsons oil i have just got says nothing about British standards or quality.....

[suffolkpete]

Hmmm I wonder why the oil manufactures said for the manufactures to recommend that...

A rather cynical view. I think the reason for more frequent oil changes is at least partially because oil became contaminated more quickly due to less accurate fuelling from carburettors and greater running clearances. That being the case, you should still change it more frequently in your classic. The cheap oil is probably of a similar spec to that used when our classics were new and the low cost means you can afford to change it regularly.

[TerryG]

This is just my opinion but with a limited budget it would be better to use cheap oil and chance it frequently than expensive oil and change it infrequently.
Your engine oil collects pollutants over time most of them so small that the filter doesn't get them out.
I do 3000 mile changes on my RR (it says 6,000 in the book) and 6000 on my focus (which says 15,000 but it has spaces in the service book for interim oil changes). After 3000 miles you can see the oil is quite dark compared to the fresh stuff.
With more modern engines that have better tolerances you can use thinner oils and change them slightly less often as there is less waste getting past the rings into the oil. Bigger miles and you need more changes to keep the oil working effectively. I suspect the main reason manufacturers say to only change your oil annually is environmental.

[M Paul Lloyd]

I'm with Terry on this, new oil, cheap or otherwise is better than old oil of any kind and it has to be said that with some procucts you are just paying for the name and a few addatives that are of limited or no benefit.

It is worth pointing out that for the sort of gentle motoring we are able to achieve in low output engined vehicles like an Austin Minor or Vauxhall Viva on our busy, pot-holed roads expensive oil is really not worth the money, but if your classic is something high strung, like a Ferrari or a Lambo' and you like to blast it around a track at weekends, well then the very best is probably essential.

[suffolkpete]

I suspect the main reason manufacturers say to only change your oil annually is environmental.

More likely because of pressure from fleet buyers to reduce servicing costs. I don't know how people can afford to have their modern cars serviced by garages these days.

[Paul240480]

Supermarket stuff for me. Both of my cars are probably younger than average on here at 22yrs & 15. Both specify once a year or 10k (maybe 12k) intervals for oil changes.

I do them every 5-6k, 240 getting Semi-Syn & 850 getting 100%. 240 has had 6k changes all of it's life & it is soon to hit 200k on original block. It has had supermarket stuff for the last 7 years & 50-ish k miles. 850 had once yearly changes at the specified service interval until the last 2 years that I've owned it. It's done 26k in my time (now on 164,500-ish) & seems quite happy to soldier on with 'Carrefour' or 'Super U' oils.

Now filters! Volvo OE or MANN (who make em' for Volvo) as these have the non-return valve inside to hold the oil pressure once the engine has stopped & gone cold