About ages ago I repaired a Metro turbo. The owner a young girl said after the repair that the car runs great, the turbo pulls the car up hills, obviously the turbo doesn't pull anything. But she is using the mid range that turbos give.
Turbos work best in the mid range not max rpm.
Do others see turbos as mid range.
A clue to me is that when the bhp and torture figures are examined is that max bhp is not much more than without. But the torque is much more.
Regards
Bob Reddington.
Turbos
Re: Turbos
That depends on the turbo.
Understeer: when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Re: Turbos
Good point.
If the turbo is big then more exhaust heat and gas and engine revs. And maybe lag
I prefer the turbo to boost the midrange on road cars after all there is a 70mph limit. And less lag.
Would injecting water into the exhaust just before the turbo cause steam to spin the turbo up.
Regards
Bob.
If the turbo is big then more exhaust heat and gas and engine revs. And maybe lag
I prefer the turbo to boost the midrange on road cars after all there is a 70mph limit. And less lag.
Would injecting water into the exhaust just before the turbo cause steam to spin the turbo up.
Regards
Bob.
Re: Turbos
there is an alleged turbo on my clio....... 
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tractorman
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Re: Turbos
Va va cough?rich. wrote:there is an alleged turbo on my clio.......
Re: Turbos
A large number of modern turbo charged cars use bi-turbo setups, one small that spins up quickly, is too small to provide peak power but gives a nice feel at lower RPM and one large which spins up more slowly but provides serious boost higher up the rev range.
Also most turbos are now variable vane which hugely changes their characteristics makes them less aggressive and able to work more efficiently at a broad range of engine loads.
Koenigsegg are now using 3d printing to make their turbo chargers removing the need for separate components which allows them much tighter tolerances making them even more efficient.
http://drive.jalopnik.com/heres-why-koe ... 1569416402
Also most turbos are now variable vane which hugely changes their characteristics makes them less aggressive and able to work more efficiently at a broad range of engine loads.
Koenigsegg are now using 3d printing to make their turbo chargers removing the need for separate components which allows them much tighter tolerances making them even more efficient.
http://drive.jalopnik.com/heres-why-koe ... 1569416402
Understeer: when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Re: Turbos
I am not that experienced with turbos and have never owned a car so equipped.
The bi turbo set up big and little turbo and variable vane is clever stuff but requires a lot of extra bits.
It like having too make a piston engine and a jet engine for one car.
However the gains can be astounding. Fifth gear test in a drag race a Focus with a 1 litre 3 cylinder turbo petrol and a Focus 4 cylinder 1600 petrol. The turbo won. I thought the 1600 would win easy with the turbo not too far behind.
Big turbos have lag but when on boost supply lots of air but the lag is huge. But it's simple.
The water idea is to generate steam to spin the turbo when the engine is needed to pull hard from low revs.
Nitrous could be used at low rpm.
I borrowed a Peugeot 405 diesel turbo est and the midrange was very good.
Diesels because the fuel is injected into the cylinder or subchamber have more valve overlap. This allows the turbo to blow through the cylinder thus purging the cylinder better. XUD.
We had turbo cars when I worked for plod. We never had any turbo troubles due to fully synthetic oil..
The Bentley turbos have a power band that starts at 800rpm nice and softly and gradually goes mental at 4500 rpm and 150mph plus. 400bhp. Its so easy to drive fast also yer granny could drive it ok. It's the 20mph to say 80 that the turbo gets seriously quick. However if the car is driven at a slower pace every thing is effortless. Somehow it still has a lazy 8 feel about the engine which I love.
The Renault 18 turbo was the opposite of the Bentley . A slug a low rpm no grunt until the boost turned up evemtually. Fun to drive though keep the revs up.
Regards Bob.
The bi turbo set up big and little turbo and variable vane is clever stuff but requires a lot of extra bits.
It like having too make a piston engine and a jet engine for one car.
However the gains can be astounding. Fifth gear test in a drag race a Focus with a 1 litre 3 cylinder turbo petrol and a Focus 4 cylinder 1600 petrol. The turbo won. I thought the 1600 would win easy with the turbo not too far behind.
Big turbos have lag but when on boost supply lots of air but the lag is huge. But it's simple.
The water idea is to generate steam to spin the turbo when the engine is needed to pull hard from low revs.
Nitrous could be used at low rpm.
I borrowed a Peugeot 405 diesel turbo est and the midrange was very good.
Diesels because the fuel is injected into the cylinder or subchamber have more valve overlap. This allows the turbo to blow through the cylinder thus purging the cylinder better. XUD.
We had turbo cars when I worked for plod. We never had any turbo troubles due to fully synthetic oil..
The Bentley turbos have a power band that starts at 800rpm nice and softly and gradually goes mental at 4500 rpm and 150mph plus. 400bhp. Its so easy to drive fast also yer granny could drive it ok. It's the 20mph to say 80 that the turbo gets seriously quick. However if the car is driven at a slower pace every thing is effortless. Somehow it still has a lazy 8 feel about the engine which I love.
The Renault 18 turbo was the opposite of the Bentley . A slug a low rpm no grunt until the boost turned up evemtually. Fun to drive though keep the revs up.
Regards Bob.
Re: Turbos
The comparison between the conventional IL4, 1.6 ltr Focus and the IL3 engine is an interesting one but when a hill enters the equation, then the 1600 wouldn't lose out significantly where some of the local roads defeat the 3 cylinder motor completely, stone dead, progress halted, hope that you can reverse as far back as the last passing place and that it has a gateway to turn the car so that it can then make good its retreat; something that the little engine can do so well it's a wonder the French army hasn't been buying the things by the million.
But far & away the biggest difference is that the 1.6 IL4 engine can usually be relied upon to last well with oil & filter changes on the short tariff. One of the students brings her Mam's old one to her placement, it's been on the short change tariff since it was new, now has 220,000 miles under its wheels and apart from the fact that - because the family stays in an area that uses salt - the car is now on its third pair of outer sills, its second tailgate and its third pair of doors, it's faultless. I expect it to last at least another 100k albeit with some floor and bulkhead repairs that it will need by somewhere around the middle of February in spite of the car's extensive Ensis treatment from new.
By comparison, one of the main dealer groups that donates cars and parts to us for forensic examination has recently donated two cars with that tiny engine; a Focus and the Fiesta with the same. The Focus had covered only 32,000 miles when two of its ends ran and the other was found to be on the verge of doing the same as its tabs were fractured almost through. The Fiesta had done no better, it had somehow managed to ingest its own turbo and had two from three holed pistons. The turbo on these has a silicon-based plastic impeller that runs in bearings of similar substance so the oil wasn't relevant but, had it been so, that car was using main dealer supplied oil of the appropriate viscosity range.
But far & away the biggest difference is that the 1.6 IL4 engine can usually be relied upon to last well with oil & filter changes on the short tariff. One of the students brings her Mam's old one to her placement, it's been on the short change tariff since it was new, now has 220,000 miles under its wheels and apart from the fact that - because the family stays in an area that uses salt - the car is now on its third pair of outer sills, its second tailgate and its third pair of doors, it's faultless. I expect it to last at least another 100k albeit with some floor and bulkhead repairs that it will need by somewhere around the middle of February in spite of the car's extensive Ensis treatment from new.
By comparison, one of the main dealer groups that donates cars and parts to us for forensic examination has recently donated two cars with that tiny engine; a Focus and the Fiesta with the same. The Focus had covered only 32,000 miles when two of its ends ran and the other was found to be on the verge of doing the same as its tabs were fractured almost through. The Fiesta had done no better, it had somehow managed to ingest its own turbo and had two from three holed pistons. The turbo on these has a silicon-based plastic impeller that runs in bearings of similar substance so the oil wasn't relevant but, had it been so, that car was using main dealer supplied oil of the appropriate viscosity range.
J
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true..
"Home is where you park it", so the saying goes. That may yet come true..
Re: Turbos
I have a 1.0 ecoboost focus inflicted on me most days and it is far from acceptable. It might be ok in a town but with motorways part of it's daily routine it is severely lacking.
My own daily is a 10 year old focus 2.0tdci and on the same run the ecoboost gets just shy of an extra 5mpg. The trade off is that it has no torque, no will to overtake once you are doing more than 45ish as in the higher gears it just doesn't want to go.
I love turbocharged cars but the 1.0 ecoboost is too small for use in a focus. It is probably fine in a KA but there just isn't enough torque available for anything heavier.
My own daily is a 10 year old focus 2.0tdci and on the same run the ecoboost gets just shy of an extra 5mpg. The trade off is that it has no torque, no will to overtake once you are doing more than 45ish as in the higher gears it just doesn't want to go.
I love turbocharged cars but the 1.0 ecoboost is too small for use in a focus. It is probably fine in a KA but there just isn't enough torque available for anything heavier.
Understeer: when you hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back of the car.
Horsepower: how fast you hit the wall.
Torque: how far you take the wall with you.
Re: Turbos
I have always been wary of little engines that produce lots of power. I much prefer a bigger engine running with less stress. It's more likely to last. The ecomony on fuel is negated if the engine goes bang expensive.