Today I have been ?????????????? to my classic

[JPB]

Now where have I seen something like that before?

Ah yes:



David, I noticed that you used two x four pin relays instead of one of each or a pair of five pin devices. This confuses me a little as surely that layout means that switching from dipped to high beam two things will (or won't) happen: The headlamp stalk itself will still need to carry the current for the dipping operation as there's no (87A) terminal to agitate the second relay and also, won't this setup mean that the outer lamps' dipped beams go off when high beam is activated, costing you that useful patch of light just in front of the car?

Just saying as I wouldn't like to see anyone finding themselves with electrical troubles that could leave their original spec (and bloody expensive if bought new ) stalk switch and/or shroud switch struggling to keep their cool.

[Toledo Man]

John, there's one relay for the dipped beams and one for the high beams. The lighting arrangement is exactly the same as you can see in the before and after photos.


Pin 30 is the permanent live feed, pin 85 is for an earth, pin 86 is the original live feed from the lights (blue/red for the dipped beams and blue/white for the high beams) and pin 87 goes to the lights. Don't the relays take the load off the lighting circuit thereby eliminating the possibility of the stalk switch burning out? I'm still on sealed beams but I've had both outer ones fail on me which has prompted me to do the halogen conversion hence the need to fit relays.

[JPB]

Right, but pin 87A is required to trigger the high beam relay. By using a relay without 87A on the dipped beam circuit, the stalk is carrying the current required to trigger high beam and also, you'll lose the dipped beams when the stalk is in the high beam position where originally, the dipped beams would have remained active as per the original wiring on these early cars.

It would have been helpful if someone hadn't messed about with the code for the image in my post. This happens a lot these days and I'd taken a screen grab just in case - as I've done with many of the previous images - only this time, the attachment facility tells me that png is an invalid extension, so I can repost the original picture showing the pair of five pin relays but not the diagram explaining how this is so.

Screenshot from 2014-08-23 23:19:27.png is an invalid filename.

With a bit of luck, the diagrams on the relays themselves are visible in that image, why it didn't stay where it was is beyond me but the image remains in the same place on my flickR photostream and should still be visible.

It is a nuisance that sealed beams are no longer in production, especially as they provided a much better beam pattern IMHO, but it's never a bad idea to use relays in any case, even though the inner main beams as originally fitted were 70 Watt ones that took more current to switch them on than the 55W Halogen equivalents do.
Terry, any joy re the images and posts that continue to "vanish" please? Sorry to ask here but some of my PMs aren't reaching their intended recipients either.

[mr rusty]

Today I have been doing battle with the Metro's ridiculously over-specced brakes! Most small cars make do with one piston in the front caliper, not the Metro, no, it's four-pot calipers and vented discs, to keep all that 998cc under control. Not braking as well as it should, so that's eight semi seized pistons to sort out..........on each side the two pots on the inner side were completely stuck, only the outer pistons were sort of moving semi properly. I blame the dustsields, the hydraulic seals were OK but the dustshields are an interference fitting metal ring with the rubber seal inside...the metal bit corrodes, swells up, pushes the rubber dustshield in, and wedges the pistons.

Why on earth BL specified 4 pot callipers gawd knows! Poxy things.......

[Mitsuru]

I don't remember 4 pot brake calipers 0n my metro, mind you that was almost 20 years ago!
But my god could that 1L 5door C reg metro shift on the back country roads!

[UKJeeper]

Polishing the brass, straightening the bent rear axle with a hammer, tightening the rear diff as it was slipping on the axle, reattaching the seat, and firing it up for the first time on 30 years. Unfortunately the boiler would not hold pressure due to a crack in the sight glass.

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[TerryG]

That's pretty looks much better than my traction engine.

[SirTainleyBarking]

Today I have been doing battle with the Metro's ridiculously over-specced brakes! Most small cars make do with one piston in the front caliper, not the Metro, no, it's four-pot calipers and vented discs, to keep all that 998cc under control. Not braking as well as it should, so that's eight semi seized pistons to sort out..........on each side the two pots on the inner side were completely stuck, only the outer pistons were sort of moving semi properly. I blame the dustsields, the hydraulic seals were OK but the dustshields are an interference fitting metal ring with the rubber seal inside...the metal bit corrodes, swells up, pushes the rubber dustshield in, and wedges the pistons.

Why on earth BL specified 4 pot callipers gawd knows! Poxy things.......

In my experinece with Rover tin, things like brakes were a pretty mixed bunch. If they had run out of single pot calipers, and had a bunch of spares for a 1300 MG metro... on they went which was fine in its way until you come to get spares.
I've long learnt to look and document what's on there before ordering the bits, as more than once the book in the motor factors and what's dangling on the axle are two very different things.
Solihull Steel can pulll a few curveballs as well. Case in point is my 300Tdi Disco. It's an early one so it's more 200Tdi / Range Rover Classic, so solid discs and rangie pads rather than the vented discs and different pads that the books say should be fitted.

[JPB]

The thing is; calipers were the same whether the Metro was an MG or a 1.0 City. They were good but pointlessly complex and ironically not as effective as the more modern single piston caliper with the sliding frame. In fact the only advantage I could think of was that four pot calipers can be set up - Volvo 140 series/Mercedes W114 style - to have the upper pair and the lower pair on different circuits, each circuit including one rear caliper so that the big square Volvos would stop well even once the PDWA had closed off a circuit.
In very early Metros, the discs were solid on the 1.0 versions but after the facelifted cars came along in 1985 all versions had the vented discs, same caliper design but I reckon the vented discs made more difference than the impressive piston count.

[mr rusty]

It's another example of the muddled thinking that eventually brought BL down- the Metro had four pot calipers, the princess range had them too, obviously bigger ones though, yet other BL cars didn't.......they could possibly have got away with standardising brakes more or less across the range, they had a perfectly two piston caliper fitted to the Allegro, which would've been adequate for the Princess, and the Metro has a similar hub design to the Allegro anyway, but no.......and only the wedge scimitar shares the pad according to the box.

I don't think they're any improvement over a single pot caliper- the pad sizes are the same. it's a typical BL bodge that when they went from solid discs to vented they simply had a spacer fitted in the calipers on stock for the changeover, rather than wait for the caliper to be re-engineered as it was later for a wider disc.

I know one thing, they're a pain in the butt now! It's just lucky that mini people have an obsession with retro-fitting them that parts are still easy to get for them!