Brake pipe replacement on Vit6

[vit6iw]

The brake pipe that goes to the back brakes on my Vitesse 6 has sprung a leak where it passes through the front outrigger on the passenger side. I've decided that it's sensible to replace all the pipes. The TSSC sell an Automec Brake Pipe Kit for £55, they're copper and are the correct length with fittings. All I'll need to do is bend them and fit (TSSC Brake Pipe Bender £12.50). The TSSC also sell all the unions (brass x3) required for £13. Although one of the unions is 4-way and the Triumph parts book shows a 5-way - one is required for the brake switch.

I've looked at using Kunifer pipe instead, but that would mean I'd have to buy a flaring tool and fittings.

Looking on the net the only concerns that are mentioned about using copper is that it work hardens through bending/flexing (I assume Kunifer does too) and corrosion. Regarding work hardening, as long as I use the original pipes as patterns, I should be able to get the bends right, but if not can't they be annealed to make them soft again? And if the pipe is well supported it won't move about. Corrosion shouldn't be a problem as all the pipes are visible (apart from where it's sprung a leak already) and Waxoyl should keep them as good as new.

I've pretty much convinced myself to go the copper route but thought I'd seek other opinions.

Any comments/suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers.

Denis

[arceye]

I use copper and a flaring tool, bends are easily achieved by hand with a little care and I've never used a bending tool though one would be handy.

You won't really cause a problem re work hardening through shaping the pipe but I believe this occurs as a result of the constant minor flexing caused by the fluid when braking over a long time period. I believe Kunifer doesn't suffer the same problem so is prefered by many these days. I can't just walk in the local shop and get a roll though so always just pop in and stick with copper.

I've always been happy with copper myself, the problem is that perhaps people have always seen it as a fit once option, it will last a long long time, much longer than steel pipes which rust, but not forever.

Perhaps others can give more detail on kunifer.

[Rootes1725cc]

I agree. I've always used copper with no problems.
I purchased a cracking flaring tool from Namrick. Not cheap but British made and looks like its robust enough to survive all out nuclear war. They do the brass unions and pipe as well. There is a lot of satisfaction in creating your own pipes. Just remember to put BOTH unions on the pipe before you flare the other end

[johnc]

Being a complete novice at pipework I opted for a readymade kit in copper for my Rapier.I bought a cheap bending tool to form the various radii etc and found it very easy and expect it shall outlive me
John

[JPB]

Copper pipe is outlawed in some countries now for the reason suggested earlier; that it can flex and break in use. I've only had this happen twice in a couple of rear backplate to axle pipes, one on a Dolomite, the other on a Rebel, both of those cars suffered from this type of failure as the copper pipe work hardened quickly as a result of their wheel cylinders being of the sliding variety. Both were being thrashed around a circuit at the time though, and braking hard and late so hardly typical use.
In that case, it's acceptable to make a couple of pigtail coils in the pipes between the cylinder and the axle tubes but better yet to use Kunifer which will stand bending all day every day and not harden as a result. Aston Martin among others use Kunifer in the factory, there's a reason for this.

[jimmyybob]

Copper hardens when you bend it, if you make a bend that's wrong you try and straighten the bugger,it will re-bend but you will need to anneal it.
Personally i always used cunifer.

[Maaarrghk]

Ditto Kunifer.

I've used it nearly 30 years and never had a problem. Readily available for about a tenner a roll.

As for flaring kits, buy the best you can afford and ALWAYS read the instructions. Halfords might do an own brand item and as a lot of their own brand stuff is actually Sykes-Pickavant you can be assured of the quality.

Does anyone know if stainless or brass end fittings are available? I've always only been able to get hold of BZP, although I did manage to get some stainless bleed nipples for my moteybike calipers via the FJ1200 owners club.

[JPB]

Brass end fittings are available but, while they'll do for copper, they're not so reliable with steel or the Kunifer cupro-nickel pipework as steel fittings since it's the union that dictates the leakproof status of the flare - especially OP1 flaring on DIY pipes - and you just can't get brass ones tight enough to squeeze out any slight eccentricity in the flare, it doesn't take much either so other than for experienced users whose flaring kits are professional style, rigidly mounted ones, I've never been satisfied with the brass unions and even on some perfect sets of pipes, fitted for people who'd shopped at Automec (who will supply brass unions with their kits) for example, there could still be some tiny leaks if the slightest imperfection were present in the female parts.
Cadmium plated steel ones will last pretty well though and the surface rust that they display after a few years isn't cause for concern.

[Maaarrghk]

Thanks JPB.

I thought I remembered brass ones being available years back, but was always a bit worried about those teeny tiny threads stripping. I do sometimes have a tendancy to over-tighten.........

Looks like I might have to do a bit more searching on the stainless side of things. Plated steel is OK for most situations here, but I hope to have a future project that will be running around where the climate is tropical coastal.

Yes, it really is alright for some, but I'll have to keep slogging away here for nearly another 20 years before retiring to my own bit of paradise.

[vit6iw]

Thanks for the replies.

None of the pipes will be subject to movement such as JPB mentioned because movement at the wheels is catered for by flexible hoses; Goodridge ones in my case, fitted a couple of years ago along with new calipers and rear drum cylinders.

The Automec kits are already fabricated and just need bending, so all the flares should be OK. And as for corrosion, I don't think that it's an issue here.

I'm going with the Automec kit.

Thanks again.

Denis

PS My Vitesse does have a 5-way union so I'm going to reuse the (brass) one on the car.