speeders database

[harvey]

That's true in that case, but I would clarify it by saying that the +-10% is only valid at 30mph, it won't count for anything if you're doing 77 in a 70

10% is 10%; it's not 10% at one speed but only 5% at another.

You really don't understand do you?

[TerryG]

These are the ACPO guidelines relating to speed:

The guidance to police officers is that it is anticipated that, other than in the most exceptional circumstances, the issue of fixed penalty notices and summonses is likely to be the minimum appropriate enforcement action as soon as the following speeds have been reached:

Speed limit Fixed penalty Summons
20 25 35
30 35 50
40 46 66
50 57 76
60 68 86
70 79 96

so 20+10%+2= 24 so at 25 or above you get a ticket
30+10%+2=35 so you are safe until that
40+10%+2=46
you get the idea.

The guidelines are here if anybody is interested:
http://www.pepipoo.com/files/ACPO/ACPO_ ... elines.htm

[JPB]

But those guidelines are just that; guidelines, and then only in areas whose Police service is based in England or Wales, with their slacker laws. Any area, Greek or Roman law-based may opt to run a zero tolerance policy at any time, leaving those of us who were only doing 31.7 in a 30 with that choice, between the points or the speed awareness course which, in case anyone's thinking of getting caught and giving it a hurl, is well worth the fee (same £60.35 as the fine would cost if you did opt to take points) since it manages to open the eyes of even the most stubbornly "anti" members of the group.
Not one single member of the group present that day had been travelling at above 34mph. Had they been doing so, then they'd have been sent a summons and given the choice between entering a guilty plea by post to the PF's office or going to court.

Oh, & Harvey has a point as far as I can see, based on the statement which he seeks to question.

[TerryG]

True, however if you do wish to have your case heard in court if you were not driving dangerously and were within 10% of the speed limit then it should be thrown out as that is the requirement of the accuracy of your speedometer.
0 tollerance doesn't work as tyre condition can make a 10% difference without making your car dangerous.
Mind you i have a habbit of taking a financial loss to make a point. I am currently sueing an insurance company over making an entry on the insurance database saying i had a fault accident when I was hit by an uninsured driver, did not claim and the cost of the damage to my car was only £120.

[harvey]

within 10% of the speed limit then it should be thrown out as that is the requirement of the accuracy of your speedometer.

But only at 30mph. Not at any other speeds, which was precisely the point I was making previously. That still applies even though the legislation was changed so that you can have a speedo that over-reads, but not have one that under-reads, so +-10% inaccuracy is no longer a defence, other than at 30mph, as the C&U regs specified up to the change in the law. Taking that away would have rendered most older cars illegal at a stroke. Any exceeding of speed limits by any amount can get you nicked, it's up to plod whether they use any discretion.

Remember if they want to nick you, they will, regardless of what you, (or I) think about it. By far the best way to avoid that is to stick to the limits.

[TerryG]

But only at 30mph. Not at any other speeds, which was precisely the point I was making previously.

I can't find any regulations anywhere stating that. I would be interested in reading your source.

[JPB]

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended, allows the use of speedometers that meet the requirements of EC Community Directive 75/443(97/39) or ECE Regulation 39. Both the EC Directive and the ECE Regulation lay down accuracy requirements to be applied at the time of vehicle approval for speedometers. These requirements are that the indicated speed must not be more than 10 per cent of the true speed plus 4 km/h. In production, however, a slightly different tolerance of 5 per cent plus 10 km/h is applied. The requirements are also that the indicated speed must never be less than the true speed.

Also see EC Directive 75/443/EC.

[TerryG]

What is actually says is:

Speedometers

35.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3), every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer which, if the vehicle is first used on or after 1st April 1984, shall be capable of indicating speed in both miles per hour and kilometres per hour, either simultaneously or, by the operation of a switch, separately.
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to—
(a)a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph; .
(b)a vehicle which it is at all times unlawful to drive at more than 25 mph; .
(c)an agricultural motor vehicle which is not driven at more than 20 mph; .
(d)a motor cycle first used before 1st April 1984 the engine of which has a cylinder capacity not exceeding 100 cc; .
(e)an invalid carriage first used before 1st April 1984; .
(f)a works truck first used before 1st April 1984; .
(g)a vehicle first used before 1st October 1937; or .
(h)a vehicle equipped with recording equipment marked with a marking designated as an approval mark by regulation 5 of the Approval Marks Regulations and shown at item 3 in Schedule 4 to those Regulations (whether or not the vehicle is required to be equipped with that equipment) and which, as regards the visual indications given by that equipment of the speed of the vehicle, complies with the requirements relating to the said indications and installations specified in the Community Recording Equipment Regulation. .
(3) Instead of complying with paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with Community Directive 75/443 or with ECE Regulation 39.

from here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986 ... on/35/made

There is nothing about accuracy.

The EC Directive states:

the test instrumentation used for measuring the true vehicle speed shall be accurate to ± 1.0 %;

It refers to manufacturers testing of speedometers NOT speedometers themselves.

[JPB]

There is nothing about accuracy.

Without any offence intended; bollocks there isn't, Terry. I pasted that directly from the construction and use regulations.

[OneCarefulOwner]

Okay, let's try & keep the namecalling etc. to a minimum eh?

The thing is that even the section JPB quoted states that 10% PLUS 4kph on approval, or 5% PLUS 10kph on production, is acceptable. Therefore the statement I made which was getting ridiculed by Harvey still stands; there is no sliding scale of increasing accuracy at higher speeds, if anything the variance permitted increases until well beyond the national limit. This is only natural as any small variance in measurement is likely to become more noticable as the amount being measured increases. Under the construction rules, you would have to exceed 200kph for 10% to no longer be an acceptable "rule of thumb", so I think we should all be able to agree that within the UK this should never be an issue for anyone trying to stay within the law.

Zero Tolerance is a seperate issue, but even this can be defeated if you can demonstrate that your instrumentation showed you to be within the limit, and your instrumentation is then demonstrated to be within permitted variances.