E6 Debate

[MidgetSaab]

Four whiskers on a six and three on an 18/85. A wolseley six was the first car I drove after passing my test, my dad's, it had the lowest bottom gear imaginable. It would blow a fuse if I drove it but not my dad, eventually traced to the fact I was driving the way I'd just been taught by BSM and keeping my foot on the clutch when waiting for short periods. The actuating arm wore through a part of the loom and if the clutch was depressed far enough shorted the circuit. My dad never used the clutch long enough or to it's fullest extent to suffer the problem. That took some finding though, I had a lecture after that and no more problems. The car was pretty reliable and was about 14 years old then and doing 12k a year

[suffolkpete]

just pointing out the facts about what the E6 is like in case the rose-tinted views of others get in the way of objectivity here.

Not rose-tinted views, the experiences of owners who have used these cars, often over high mileages. That engine was in production for about ten years and I'm sure not even British Leyland would have continued to fit them for that long if they were really as bad as you say.

[needstlc]

just pointing out the facts about what the E6 is like in case the rose-tinted views of others get in the way of objectivity here.

Not rose-tinted views, the experiences of owners who have used these cars, often over high mileages. That engine was in production for about ten years and I'm sure not even British Leyland would have continued to fit them for that long if they were really as bad as you say.

Exactly!

[JPB]

Pure luck. I suggest that the reason those who had more typical experiences of owning these engines aren't posting here is that they're already put off for life.
When you've been asked to fit as many replacements and/or have been called out to recover as high a proportion of known ones in the hands of the ex-BMC buyers at a long-term place of work (International Motors [Subaru] ex-BMC/BL premises in several locations during my 4 years secondment & around 70% failure rate at below 40k. A figure based in the real world and submitted to IM's QC dept as one to beat with the then-new brand. Not difficult, though even I would admit that ADO71 probably resists rot better) then fine, an owner's view would count.

But as it's fair to say, based on experience, that only around 30% weren't replaced, rejected or repaired to address the well-known issues that these suffered, what are the chances of anyone else rushing to their defence?

Like I say; it's absolutely great that the one in this car has gone beyond the usual record mileage for one of these and those revised blocks did make a big difference if that's had an engine built around one, but as these only came out after E6 production had ended any originals out there now must be on borrowed time.

More significantly; that engine apart, there are many reasons to like an ADO71. My own as I said was a B-series one. It managed at best 100 miles to each pint of engine oil, its BW35 transmission (why oh why did they not use the AP 4 speed auto in these as they did in Maxis) regularly refused to change out of 1st for no apparent reason until the car was stopped, reversed for a few yards then restarted and man, did it have an appetite for bottles, which eventually saw it scrapped as nobody had thought of fitting valves to the gas chambers back then, but it was utterly rot free, comfortable beyong belief even with the saggy bottles and never actually failed to get anywhere. I'd be buying any Wedge in spite of its engine, for its many genuinely good points.

[needstlc]

I don't think it's luck at all, otherwise I wouldn't have bought consecutive cars which used the same engine. Mine were serviced strictly according to the recommendations of the manufacturer and never missed a beat. I think some cars have acquired their reputations unfairly: if you listen to some people the wold was full of dead Allegros at the roadside with overheated Stags and P6B 3500S with broken gearboxes littering the place as well. You do get the strange sort of person who sidles up to you at a show and takes perverse pleasure in telling you how bad your model was when they were new, but faults get blown out of all proportion until the myth becomes fact. BL is an easy target, and electrics by Joe Lucas are usually greeted with a derisive snort, but the fact remains that many thousands of people will have owned and driven cars which are the butt of such treatment and had perfectly satisfactory experiences with them as I did myself. I wonder what percentage of the cars with the E-series engine suffered in the way mentioned.

[hobby]

Well I suppose it kept the advert in everyone's view! As far as i know the engine's ok, I have had a 2.2 before, many years ago, and it used oil, but Noggin seems ok! Only thing I haven't got used to is manual choke trying to fire up 6 cylinders! Probably something to do with the fact that I've been running diesels for 15+ years and several auto choke cars before that... out of practice methinks!!

(BTW JPB, I never expressed an opinion one way or the other about your post, think it may have been someone else!!)

[JPB]

Well I suppose it kept the advert in everyone's view!

Yep, and that's what matters.

I wonder what percentage of the cars with the E-series engine suffered in the way mentioned.

I already stated that in my last but one post; 70%.
I also explained quite clearly how that figure was arrived at.
I know that there are many criticisms aimed at pretty much any car that would be of interest to readers of the mag and/or of this site; BL/Saab Slant 4 and its V8 (Stag) version being right up there but, as with the Express (the wholesale face of Unipart & Stanpart, tucked away from the shiny retail parts counters) solution of introducing the revised blocks to address most of the issues with the E6, progress has been made since production ended, albeit not within their dealer service lifespan in the case of other examples such as those BL/Saab engines.
And there's the thing: Had it not been the extent of my exposure to the shuffling heads & subsequent HGF, jackshaft failure caused by too much oil pressure and water pumps that were condemned simply because they weren't properly understood - on Dolomites back in the day, I wouldn't have been inspired to purchase any of my own examples of that car, same goes for the ADO71, had I not become so well acquainted with their foibles, I'd probably have overlooked them rather than seeing them as a challenge.

I apologise unreservedly for any distress that my posts have caused to the seller of this fine car, but it's no more possible to dismiss experience of repairing dozens on the basis of one or two owned examples than it is to say that they're all bad when I've made it clear enough that 70% was the warranty return rate for major engine work across all E6 cars. If the old offices weren't a Scotmid or whatever supermarket chain occupies the site now, I'd have gone back to rescue the old workshop records.
That would also annoy people who worship at the altar of the large journal, Canley OHVs, especially the 1500.....

[needstlc]

I do not accept that seven out of every ten cars is a credible failure rate and have seen nothing in the contemporary media or later accounts to substantiate the claim, hence my rhetorical musing on the true percentage. However, I'm not going to divert attention from this very desirable classic by prolonging the debate.

I hope Noggin sells and quickly, as she is a very attractive example of a "Wedge", one of the more underrated cars of its time.

[hobby]

Perhaps another thread may have been more apropriate though for your comments JPB... I do think, especially with that last post, that you have overstepped the mark on my thread which is trying to sell the car!!

I'd rather you remove all your posts to another thread on a different section, maybe headed up "engine faults" so all manufacturer's engine fault can be discussed. I have to say that last post tipped the balance against you I'm afraid, considering the nature of the thread that was way OTT.

Please use the edit button and I'd ask all those who replied to him with "quotes" to do the same.

Thanks.

[JPB]

Sounds like a plan. How about it please, mods?