Practically Classics Forum

I ordered an exhaust from CES / Classic Exhaust Systems (who advertise in the back of the magazine) back in May and they finally delivered a rusty but unused exhaust for my '77 Celica ST in June (for the price of £177).

However on trying to install it, the brackets were all in the wrong place so I telephoned Phil Jarvis of CES who explained that the brackets were always different on replacement systems due to copyright issues. Phil offered to send me the a picture from the catalogue of the exhaust together with some gaskets. Another couple of weeks followed. When the picture arrived, it appeared to me eyes that I had been sent the wrong exhaust but Phil was adamant that it was correct, so I took some photos of the exhaust in situ and emailed these over. Another couple of weeks and Phil agreed that the front section was different and located a replacement front pipe which arrived a week later.

So now it is August and I finally hope to install the new exhaust. The new front pipe fits ok but the rear section still doesn't appear to, so on the basis of Phil's assertion that it is correct, I resort to sawing the pipe in two to connect the parts either side of the back axle seperately. I then I discover the rear section is at least 6 inches shorter than the old exhaust, the flanges for the front and rear are different, there are no brackets anywhere near any connection point on the car to hang the exhaust on to so there is not a chance in hell of making this exhaust fit.

My phonecalls to CES now go straight to answerphone. All along I said that the exhaust was wrong and could I have my money back but Phil was adamant that it was the correct exhaust. Now it is September and I have been unable to use the car during the best part of the year thanks to a measly exhaust system. Exasperation!

Any help anyone?

'Copy right issues' a load of cobblers. Although its fair to say patern exhausts sometimes need a slight tweak with some grips and a medium hammer

Write to the company explaining the background of your complaint ( even though he already knows) include chassis numbers photos etc and politely say unless you are refunded or the exhaust replaced with one that fits within x number of days you will small claims court him.

Small claims court is easy to do online and if what you say is correct he will be liable for costs,interest, etc etc

tried a small claims court?
otherwise try another supplier. i hear rock auto in the states are quite good..
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... rbdjgliho3

Hate to be negative, but since you've sawn it in half I can't see you have much chance of getting your money back.

Paul Castrol R wrote:Phil Jarvis of CES who explained that the brackets were always different on replacement systems due to copyright issues.

Absolute lobbocks - it seems to me that comment tells you all you need to know about this company, or at least this guy. Take him to small claims court.

Agreed, that is complete rubbish. The small claims court is easy to use and not expensive. As you have now modified the exhaust yourself you won't be able to send it back for a refund but I suspect that in court you could argue that you had to do it following the lack of response you had from the company involved and your requirement to get your car back on the road.

All the aftermarket exhausts I have bought for various cars over the years have all fitted perfectly, and the brackets and hangers have all beein in the correct factory positions, after all, what's the point of buying something that needs changing before you can fit it? Guy is talking out of his arris! Formal letter of complaint, then if no response to that start a small claim, details here https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

The Citizens Advice Bureaux can give you helpful advice over the phone too should you need it. Good luck.

Thanks everyone for your replies

My concern was that I had sawed in in two (as the seller was so adamant that it was correct so would somehow fit!) so I can't return it in the original condition

My other concern is that I never received an invoice so the only proof I have is my paid cheque - to Phil Jarvis who is obviously a sole trader, although he the former owner of long closed exhaust supplier and now uses the facilities of Exhausts UK Ltd. which is run by his son and daughter.

If the exhaust had only been £20 or £30 quid it wouldn't have been so bad but at £177 I expected more

And the worse thing is having the car out of action for so long.

I will write the letter as suggested giving 7 days before court action and will see what happens.........

I'd also make the local Trading Standards office aware of the situation, but do this before, not after you take this sheister to court as that way, the council can help you in court if it comes to that. Back in 2009, I had a similar exhaust-related series of total f'k-ups and subterfuge perpetrated upon me by a large supplier of Triumph parts who work out of a big warehouse in Lincolnshire and miraculously, the solution arrived two days after I'd spoken to my local trading standards and asked them to contact their equivalent organisation down there.

Come to think of it, if you're stuck for enough bits to make up something that'll fit the car until you get some satisfaction with this, I still have an eight foot length of 2" mild steel exhaust pipe with the bend that went under the Dolomite's rear axle, a box and some random universal clamps and fittings. Let me know if that's likely to be of any use to you, gratis of course.

If you win at the Sheriff court, you'll be able to appoint bailiffs to enter this bloke's premises and take stuff to the value of the debt, even though you had to cut this, it clearly wasn't fit for purpose or you wouldn't have had to do that! Make sure to include every minute of your time at a fair hourly rate as well as any other out of pocket expenses that you've built up.

I would wish you luck but I believe that you're completely in the right here and as such luck has nothing to do with the outcome.

Personally I'd write it down to experience and forget about it...........trouble is, you've cut it in half- if it did go to small claims all he's got to say is that what you've got aint what he supplied you with, assuming the company you bought it off even still exists. Best option, buy some pipe sections of the right diameter, and a couple of flexi joints, and salvage what you have.

I have this problem with the Metro- pattern pipes are avaiable, but they're not quite right....the back boxes are too fat and rattle on the bottom, and they fracture downstream of the two into one joint.....I've found that rather than going back to the supplier with all the time and hassle that involves, cutting the pipe and fitting a flexible section at the fracture point solves all the issues, life's too short to spend months wrangling over a bit of steel tubing!