Practically Classics Forum

This was going to go under the "Who do you trust re your mechanics etc" but was too OT by the time I'd finished and realised that most newly qualified 'technicians' only know how to use their computer and not their own logical thought processes... or fault diagnosis processes!


Ressurecting an old thread I know but a local boy - about 80yo - and an 'engineer/mechanic' was with us a few months ago for an 'aged' Audi 80 2.6 est. - lovely old bus but 200k later.. it passed an MOT but I noticed no brake lights were working. This car normally just sat on the yard until needed or someonewanted to borrow something and had no time to investigate really. I had changed the bulbs/around etc - checked for fuses to no avail. So - called the man out. 3 minutes problem was solved - no fuse at all. I can only deduce that something else didnt work at the MOT and they 'borrowed a fuse' and didnt replace etc. ANYWAY - prob my fault for not doing the job myself. £80 lighter and 2cups of tea(!!) again a bit dear but I did call him out. His son apparently works forBentley and they had a recall for a poss. loose cable on the starter which meant an engine out job which kept him busy for a while.

The guy with me thou told me of a tale in the local Subaru garage - main agent - brand new car 75miles - been tested - ready to go to a customer - all paid up but the engine management light had come on. The Subaru tech 'boys' used their computer and diagnosed a faulty lambda sensor - so changed it - no avail - so changed it again from a known good one from a demonstrator car. No joy again. So they changed the ECU from stock (£2700). No joy either. So Mick is called desperately while the customer is delayed and within a few minutes he has diagnosed the fault - no power to lambda sensor - checks fuse - which has blown - changes it and all is well. While this is OK when a vehicle is new/under warranty what would we have been charged? 3/4hours at £100/hr, a new sensor, a new ECU, and then a fuse, would we have been told that it was only the fuse in the end??

There is huge faith in the 'computer' and I don't doubt they are great as it is my 'trade' but 'technicians/mechanics' are not looking at what is important which is methodical fault diagnosis. Stick these guys in front of a new old car without the plug they'd be stuck for ever.

However I had a C230K Mercedes with a missfire - SWMBO hadnt even noticed after 100+ miles of motorway driving - and put the computer on it - knackered coil pack on 1, swapped pack one and 3, retried the computer - and it picked up coilpack three. Easy 20mins work - diagnosed and resolved fault. (and only £35 for the coil pack from Sinclair Swansea delivered to the garage which I thought was a gift....)

Did anyone think to establish how the fuse had failed in the first place? A blown fuse is a symptom of the fault, a fault that may now have been addressed by one of the other scattergun diagnostic methods so may never be found, but may equally well rear its head again next week and start the whole process over.

when i worked for a local taxi firm the peugeot tepee 9 seater thing wouldnt pump up its suspension,the boss took it to the main dealer & they plugged in the computer & couldnt find anything. i told the boss it was ice in the system. after 2 weeks of regular visits to the local garages none of which could find the problem.. boss takes the car to a local guy a hgv mechanic, who jacked the car up to see undid the feed pipe & couple of litres of water drained out.... dont you love computers....

rich. wrote: dont you love computers....

Nothing wrong with computers, they are a useful diagnostic tool. You need to apply knowledge and expeience to what they're telling you though.

the ones around here just said no....

A local main agent changed hands about six years ago and the new owners introduced some new rules:

If the customer complains the job hasn't been done properly (or fault cured), the "technician" has to sort it and doesn't get paid for the time it takes.

I was quite surprised when I was told that - then thought about it for a while and realised that I had had problems with the previous owners when I had problems after having work done on a car.

Another little trick that the new owners stopped was "toilet breaks". The technicians had to clock off before going to the toilet and, if they spent more than a few minutes, their pay was docked!

Our local garage charges by the times set in one of the trade "bibles". Their main problem is that they can work on two or three cars at a time (while waiting for parts) and have to deal with visitors, phone calls and various other interruptions. I suspect that they lose out though - many of the local cars are covered in muck and their undersides are sprayed with salt water on a regular basis and nuts and bolts don't fare well under those conditions! I suspect they also take longer because they don't know all the tricks for all the cars and more or less have to feel their way into the area they want to repair.

Which reminds me of a tale one of my niece's ex-boyfriends told me (about 20 years ago). He was an apprentice at a main agent and there was a p/x "Other Make"that needed some sort of repair. The fitters spent half a day and still hadn't worked out how to cure the fault. They ended up ringing the "Other Make" agent for advice and the car was sorted within half an hour! Apparently they could fix Fords in a flash; but on anything else, they were lost!

tractorman wrote:A local main agent changed hands about six years ago and the new owners introduced some new rules:

If the customer complains the job hasn't been done properly (or fault cured), the "technician" has to sort it and doesn't get paid for the time it takes.

I was working to that sort of system nearly 40 years ago. If jobs came back with problems the job card was marked "RFW" (Rectification of Faulty Work) and if the person who did it fixed it the time taken came off his bonus, and if someone else fixed it their time came off the original worker's bonus.

tractorman wrote:Another little trick that the new owners stopped was "toilet breaks". The technicians had to clock off before going to the toilet and, if they spent more than a few minutes, their pay was docked!

I can't say they went that far though....

tractorman wrote:Our local garage charges by the times set in one of the trade "bibles".

So did I when working for myself. I could make plenty of money using the book times, whereas other places couldn't do things properly however long they took. Even the "Bibles" give you extra for seized bolts.

tractorman wrote:Which reminds me of a tale one of my niece's ex-boyfriends told me (about 20 years ago). He was an apprentice at a main agent and there was a p/x "Other Make"that needed some sort of repair. The fitters spent half a day and still hadn't worked out how to cure the fault. They ended up ringing the "Other Make" agent for advice and the car was sorted within half an hour! Apparently they could fix Fords in a flash; but on anything else, they were lost!

That's the reason I made money using the book times, I wouldn't take on jobs where I didn't know what I was doing. That's just a fast way to lose money. Stick to what you know, and if you know it well you'll make money.

As mentioned the ICME books did give you extra for rusty bolts but if you didnt know what you were doing it could bit you in the ass.
Lancia thema 8.32 water pump costs about £100 nothing uusual about that but the book time is 26hrs.!!! if you looked at the pump i a box and didnt check the fitting time you would be quite a bit out of pocket.
5 Cylinder fiat timing belts, book gives around 9hrs in can be done in a couple of hours if you know how.