Practically Classics Forum

Has anybody come across this or something similar set upon a vehicle,
where they had to move stuff around an engine bay?

Moved to "Technical Queries".

No, never seen anything like that, looks as if it'd be pretty hard to do properly, to me.

My last RR had an engine with 3 V belts run from the crank pully and a "ribbed" belt run from the water pump to the a/c. I'm not 100% sure how the pulleys were connected together, i think they were bolted with some small spacers. Other than it being a pig of a job to replace them every year it worked fine.

Hmm, can anyone else see the major issue with that arrangement?

Mitsuru.

Is this something you have seen and are enquiring about because you find it to be unusual?

Or is it something that you are trying to build yourself?

If you are trying to build such a system, I would suggest that you contact a company called Fenner - I think they are based in Bradford. They do both v-belt and toothed belt (HTD) drives and the components are reasonably priced, although not the pretty polished alloy things that you see on hot rod supercharger drives.

Best to mention to them that this is an automotive application.

Okay ladies and gentlemen here is the information give on this subject on various forums
(if your info is already above I apologise but I'm making sure everybody sees the same
as this thread is being ran on various forums to get different points of view & info)

coldlakemagnum of lxforums.com wrote:my Kia spectra had a similar setup to that

andrewg1323 of ppcmag.co.uk wrote:Focus diesels run the alternator inboard of the diesel pump with an extension shaft
to allow it to run off the aux belt.

Transits (and other ford diesels) run the PAS pump off the camshaft pulley on the gearbox
side of the engine (and run the waterpump off the back of the PAS pump IIRC) so definately
possible

Renrut of ppcmag.co.uk wrote:Not quite the same but YD range of Nissan diesels all run their vac pumps off the back end
of the cam shaft. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other diesels do similar stuff as its an
obvious space in the engine bay.

jimbo in MI of Neons.org wrote:Done lots by the OEM. GM did this on a few engines like the 1.8L Pontiac OHC. Cadillac and
Olds ran P/S off the camshaft with a very short belt.

Here is a Nissan. The one on the left is P/S.



You will need one heck of a bearing to withstand the different forces at work there.
It will not be a very clean solution, and it would not be my first choice. An extremely
heavy load like A/C might make the belt slip, this would be best with something like
the alternator.

TerryG of practicallyclassics.co.uk wrote:My last RR had an engine with 3 V belts run from the crank pully and a "ribbed" belt
run from the water pump to the a/c. I'm not 100% sure how the pulleys were
connected together, i think they were bolted with some small spacers. Other than
it being a pig of a job to replace them every year it worked fine.

Maaarrghkof practicallyclassics.co.uk wrote:If you are trying to build such a system, I would suggest that you contact a
company called Fenner - I think they are based in Bradford. They do both v-belt
and toothed belt (HTD) drives and the components are reasonably priced, although
not the pretty polished alloy things that you see on hot rod supercharger drives.

Best to mention to them that this is an automotive application.

I thought I had seen something similar to my picture but couldn't remember where!
Also I wasn't sure if this was being used by people customizing their cars this way,
Let alone the manufacturers doing it!

So now we know that the manufacturers do it so can we, depending on the setup.

Do you need that much offset.?? you could easily have a double pulley but fitting all that lot onto a small extension shaft could be an issue, normally the driven item would be offset to fit in the normal belt run.

Does this set-up include a cam belt, or is the camshaft(s) driven by a chain or gears inside the engine?

Double pulleys would be fine for v-belts as the belts are quite narrow. That might be the way to go if the cam(s) are chain or gear driven.

If there is a cam belt, then the cam and crank pullies/belts will both be toothed and therefore wider. I think that I have seen a combined toothed and vee pulley - it was on either a Saab or a Peugeot 106, but cannot recall for certain.

What exactly is it that you are trying to achieve?

Jimmybob you will be surprised at how many people want to put a larger alternator or retro fit
power steering, add a Vacuum pump, or fit an upgraded A/C compressor.

But they can't because the the engine bay is usually narrower at the back than the front, and
narrower at the bottom than the top.

Then add the intake manifolds and exhaust system and so on, you begin to realise what space is
left to put these extra components. And wonder how you can get them to run off the belts!

And on more and more vehicles you no longer see V belts but serpentine belts.

Here are a few pictures from how I came across this problem when trying to fit my alternator onto
the back of the engine. Oh and mine has an internal chain for the cams.











By posing the question in various forums, it has shown that it is not just those of use who are
retro fitting their faithful old cars, with either a slightly modern engine or with a larger lump.

But it shows that even the manufacturers have come up against this same problem as more of
the structure is designed for crumple zones than as space for the engine and it's components.

In their mass produced version the DIYer might find the components they need to do something
similar.

It certainly does look a bit tight in there.

I am making the assumption that you are fitting a larger engine.

Is there a belt driven power steering pump that you could remove and replace with the alternator?

You could then either do away with power steering and develop arms like Arnie, or fit an electric power steering system. There is a company that does them and advertised in PC recently, but their system came in at around £1100 I think.

An alternative might be found down the scrappies - I know that some Citroen Saxos have an electric system.

Just thought I'd come at the problem from a different angle........