Practically Classics Forum

gazza82 wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:01 am Garages are prob still doing mots. Garages are on essential service list. No announcement about delaying their expiry this time.

Yeah, physically getting it done isn't so much the issue. Going out to do it is very much not essential though given the car's not going to be going anywhere until spring anyway. If I was relying on it for every day transport fair enough but I'm not.

Decision made. Jag isn't getting abandoned on the drive until spring entirely.

I can get a pair of general purpose Nankang tyres in the 205/70 15 size that's currently on there fitted for £65 each. That will get the car back into a safe and drivable state - bearing in mind they're replacing 17 year old, unevenly worn and badly out of round Corsas I'm not going to quibble over the 10mm size difference to spec, it's still going to be an absolutely massive improvement. I'd not have known had I not looked in the handbook anyway that they were fractionally too small. We're not talking putting a space saver on or anything daft, they're still plenty chunky.



I'll then get it stuck in for an MOT at either my usual or another known classic friendly garage and see if that leaves me with anything else other than my current known list.

In the spring, assuming everything else has been sorted without incident (and the MOT tester doesn't just condemn the car!) I'll then look to get a full set of Vredstein Sprint Classics in the correct 215/70 15 size fitted. I just really don't want to drop the best part of a grand on tyres until the car's got a year's ticket on it. Especially knowing that if the rear brakes need any work that at today's labour rates you're probably going to be looking at a quote starting at £500 before they've even picked up a spanner.

Once it's got some serviceable tyres on and the front discs/pads changed she can come out on the occasional dry day through the winter. Given that I don't have any covered storage that's probably honestly better than just leaving the car sitting for the next three months. We all know that the thing highly strung cars like this hate more than anything is disuse. Just look back at when I first got it.

Plus I'd really rather have a backup roadworthy car on hand in case I have problems with the Xantia (not that I commute or anything so it's purely convenience for errand running!). The whole being a single seater slightly limits the applications I can use the Invacar for in that field.

Why not put the vredestein tyres on and be done? Or are they limited to lottery winners only?

Dick wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:29 pm Why not put the vredestein tyres on and be done? Or are they limited to lottery winners only?

Because they're around £250 each, and I need four. I'd rather not stick them on then discover I need to do a bunch more work then wind up with the car sitting for the next six months while I sort something else out I've not spotted yet. Or worse yet end up with the MOT tester finding galloping rot that I've missed.

Once the worst of the current to do list is sorted and I know I can actually look forward to enjoying the car for another year then I'll be more willing to drop the money to get the technically correct tyres fitted. Go take a look. There aren't many options out there in 215/70 R15 V spec. Which I'm sure is why it wound up wearing the current 205/70s. It's just a lot of money to drop into an unknown. The vast, vast majority of tyres in that size with lower speed ratings are specifically designed van or SUV tyres which obviously won't work well with suspension designed with a more compliant sidewall in mind.

-- -- --

All right...time to quit procrastinating and actually attack the to do list.

Biggest urgent item is to try to stop the Jag filling up with water.

This has been a pretty sunny day, it's obvious there's standing water in there.



While I had already pulled the front carpet out on the offside I'd not touched the rear.

Oops.



Yep... that's been holding on to a bit of water.



I punched out the bungs in that vicinity to allow the water to drain from the car for now.



I wanted to take a closer look at the rear to make sure we didn't have significant amounts of water getting in through the rear window so pulled out the rear seat. I know there can be issues with these cars where water can pool under the rear seats if the rear window leaks.





While I did find large amounts of dog hair, aside from a little condensation there was no water to be found happily.

The nearside carpets were slightly damp but not actually hiding standing water.



I've removed them from the car to be taken inside and thoroughly dried out for now.

One of the main areas I knew water was getting in was via the heater.

I had it in my head that I'd already checked the scuttle drains though the evidence found today suggests otherwise.

Hard to see here but this drain is full of water. A pint or so ran out of the heater intake box when I pulled this off.



When I reverse flushed this with the hose pipe, a solid 4" plug of compacted decomposing organic matter was ejected. No wonder I've been having water ingress problems! Both sides were exactly the same. I reckon these drains have been clogged for a very long time.



Daft design though, the widest point in the whole drain is right at the top...with each join from there on getting smaller. It's just asking to get clogged. Passenger side is easy to get at at least, though the driver's side is awkward an you have to remove the offside air filter and wriggle it out around the brake master cylinder.

The other issues I had had with the heater were twofold. Firstly was a stubborn refusal to reliably blow hot air and secondly a continual cold draugt oh my left knee.

I think there are two issues here. Firstly is that something is amiss with the control logic and/or the Heath Robinson collection of motorised cams and vacuum actuators which control the heater assembly.





The level of complexity and lack of access look like fun!

I was hoping to figure out what's where when it's blowing hot then be able to temporarily lock it in that position...however you just can't see or get at it well enough. I'll need to fault find the control system I think.

I quickly discovered that the blue thing which is the plenum sitting between the heater blower and the box containing the heater matrix were not actually attached to each other. You can see there's a good 1/2" of a gap at the end of the ducts.

The copper you can see there is actually inside the heater box itself.



The moment I touched this it just fell out. Wasn't attached at the top either.

This turned out to be Rather Annoying.

Turns out getting his thing back into position is *incredibly* awkward.



It needs to bridge the gap between the stubs arrowed in this image.



After somewhere between three and four hours of arguing with it while literally laying upside down in the footwell I gave up for the day. I just cannot for love nor money get the plenum to fit over the rectangular stub on the blower.

All the guides to servicing or replacing the blower motors seem to suggest attaching it to the blower before refitting it. So I'll probably need to get the whole blower out. Yay.

I guess on the plus side it was going to have to happen eventually to sort the speed controller anyway...but I was hoping to make this a quick job!

Patience is definitely something you need working on these cars! You can be sure that Jaguar's designers will never let you down with regards to finding new and exciting ways to make an easy job incredibly difficult.

250 quid each for a tyre.. id do the lottery. from what I see from the pictures its a tidy car.. when is the mot due? Id pop it in with the tyres that are fitted and prey.. for the damp can you rent a garage or buy a carcoon thing?

Dick wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:36 pm 250 quid each for a tyre.. id do the lottery. from what I see from the pictures its a tidy car.. when is the mot due? Id pop it in with the tyres that are fitted and prey.. for the damp can you rent a garage or buy a carcoon thing?

The ones on the front have a horrendous flat spot on following a near miss that I'm pretty sure was a crash for cash attempt resulting in an emergency stop on a 70mph dual carriageway. They're perished and basically plastic. The flat spots are bad enough that I pulled over immediately after because I thought I'd blown a tyre, the vibration was that had.

I've a pretty good rapport with my MOT tester and I'd rather keep it that way! I try not to turn up with anything glaringly obvious as a fail. MOT isn't out till the end of January, but I generally prefer to get things done sooner than later.

The current to do list (as I remember it!) is:

[] Tyres. They're the wrong size and are all old. Rears are from 2015 I believe but are at least still compliant and have plenty of tread. Fronts are shot.
[] Fuel injection system overhaul. Every bit of rubber fuel hose in the engine bay will be changed as part of that to ensure ethanol safety.
[] Cam box gaskets leak like the Exxon Valdez. However you need to pull the inlet manifolds to get to them...which you need to remove the injection gubbins from first...so an ideal time to do the above work. Likewise there are a few vacuum lines and coolant hoses I've yet to change because you can't get to them without taking stuff apart.
[] As above...have an inlet manifold leak right next to injector 6A. You can hear it tick when the injector fires.
[] Oil pressure light pressure switch packed in a few weeks ago. It's a pain to get to normally... though will be a lot easier once I've got half the engine bay in bits. I'll probably change the gauge sender while I'm at it as there seems to be some question over whether it's the correct one, be curious to see if that has any impact on the huge offset on the gauge.
[] Front brake discs have a huge divot in them from where the pads sat while the car was disused for a while. Have noted that the lockwire that should be on the brake caliper retaining bolts appears to be missing. Had to buy the tool to crimp lockwire.as it's not something I've come across before on cars unsurprisingly. Have the new discs and pads in the boot.
[] HT leads have seen better days.
[] Water ingress issues...which hopefully we might have just sorted a fair chunk of.
[] AC compressor is shot (shaft is bent).
[] Heater has a mind of its own.

... That's pretty much the list as far as I can remember just now.

Bearing in mind that it was raining this morning, walking up to the car and finding only this by way of signs of condensation definitely seems a positive indication compared to yesterday...



Footwells are bone dry save for a bit of residual damp from the annoyingly glued in place carpet I can't remove.





I'd really like to get my dehumidifier set up in the car and leave it running for a few days to get the carpets I can't remove etc properly dried out, sadly the fan on it has seized so I need to pull it to bits to revive it at some point.

I only had half an hour today before the daylight failed, so was mainly checking for signs of further water ingress...however while I was there I snapped a few photos mostly for a bit of my own reference...and to show just how much stuff is crammed in behind the dash in this contraption for those who haven't ever dug into one of these cars.



The black rectangle attached to the blower body is one of about half a dozen fuse boxes scattered seemingly at random around the car.



Pulled the instrument panel yesterday to see if that would give me better access to get that annoying plenum back in place...the answer being "no" unless I want to remove the brace holding the steering column to the bulkhead. The blue thing several layers back is the offending item I'm trying to get back into where it lives. Even with that bracket out the way I don't think it would help me much as that wiring loom behind it is as solid as a rock.



At least getting the instrument panel out is pretty easy courtesy of it being a fully electronic panel so there's no speedometer cable to worry about and the reach adjustment on the steering wheel means getting it out of the gap is easy enough.

The moment you look down however you get to see the haphazard mess of relays in the general vicinity of the fuse box. Not sure if these were originally clipped in place some how...



Despite the penny pinching, nice to see they didn't skimp on RF suppression on the brake light switch!



Though I get the impression that switch probably contains 50% more moving parts than is really necessary.

In the passenger's footwell there's a second fuse box, another blower assembly and more relays. Some nice and neatly clipped in by the fusebox...others just...well stuffed behind the trim seemingly at random.



The whole push/pull arrangment for the bonnet release/lock means even the handle for that is overcomplicated.

Had wondered how far up the HVAC assembly I could see from down there...answer being "Not very" I think, so I'll probably need to pull the glove box out if I need to get to anywhere up there.



Just noticed looking at the photo, I do indeed spy an old Econocruise control box...there's a blast from the past.

It seems to be the same story basically behind any bit of trim you remove in this car...there's just "stuff" behind everything, including in the boot (which is where the injection ECU lives).

I think the HVAC control system probably gets the award for most overcomplicated design though. I mean you couldn't just have stepper motors, tiny servos or vacuum control...you had to have ALL of the above in one unit...I'm sure it made sense to somebody!

Think I may just have found a smoking gun with regards to the slight but annoying damp that seems to be getting into the Xantia (just enough to make the windows instantly steam up whenever it rains).



Will pull and re-seal that tail light and see if that cures it. All of the water off the rear of the roof and tailgate runs over here and there's a seam between two panels under the seal so it's a prime candidate for water ingress even though the actual void into the interior is pretty tiny (just a passthrough for the wiring).

Definitely worth putting the dehumidifier in the car to dry it out. I did my rx7 that had been outside for a few years.the spare wheel was under water... and got a couple of gallon out also got rid of the damp mould smell.. can you borrow one?

Dick wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:08 pm Definitely worth putting the dehumidifier in the car to dry it out. I did my rx7 that had been outside for a few years.the spare wheel was under water... and got a couple of gallon out also got rid of the damp mould smell.. can you borrow one?

Sadly not, I'm the one folks borrow stuff like that from! My one can be fixed, it just needs a new blower motor, and it's just a generic one. Will try to get to it soon. Being a dessicant dehumidifier it works like a 750W fan heater too, so ideal at this time of year. Stick the drain hose through one of the bungs in the floor and just leave it for a few days. It will fill the internal 2 litre tank in a couple of hours otherwise.

So yesterday evening I ended up wasting the best part of three hours getting a clean print out of this thing.



For the third time in as many months.

If you use it at least once every couple of weeks it's as good as gold. Print quality is second to non, I've printed about 1500 pages and am still on the ink bottles that came in the box and I don't think I've ever had a paper jam. However it's still an inkjet...so it still gets cranky if left unused for any length of time. Well... except for the old HP PSC2179 which we still have in my husband's room that I bought back in 2003...it seems strangely immune to that problem even if left for six months at a time.

I've just had enough of consumer grade printers. I went out of my way to get a decent one when I got the ET4550, and it's still trouble.

After a bit of digging around I've just ordered a reconditioned HP4600dn. Proper enterprise grade colour laser from 2002. I have prior knowledge of this exact model as it's the one printer that even the council roads department couldn't kill...which is high praise for any piece of equipment! Don't think that one was ever out of service from 2005 through to 2012 when we moved buildings. £120 for a reconditioned one with warranty, brand new imaging kit and transfer belt, and toners showing minimum of 40% (they're good for 8000 pages so that'll last me plenty anyway!) sounded like a bargain to me.

Nice that because this is a belt transfer based printer it prints all four colours at once so performance is identical when printing colour or monochrome. A lot of smaller colour lasers from this sort of period used sequential colour printing...so colour print speed would be 1/4 that of mono. The one in our office did about 15ppm mono...but 3 in colour...and it took a good 45 seconds for the first colour page to appear. Much swearing used to happen if you realised there was one hyperlink or something in colour in your otherwise black and white document that you'd not spotted before clicking print, and you heard the carousel with the toner cartridges on moving out of the home position as you stood up from your desk to go get your document...

So continues my quest to eliminate all the consumer grade tat from our IT infrastructure in this house. I was glad to find the 4600dn specifically because it's a model that I've prior experience both using and looking after, so I know it's built like a brick outhouse and is easy to look after. Must be one of the last generation before HP's kit really went down the pan.

I'd *like* one of the original LaserJet battleships...but just because I love kit like that rather than because I actually have a use for one. I really need colour, and having had a printer with a duplexer I'd miss it going back to one without.

I do have a LaserJet 1100 here though, which used to be my "general purpose I want to print manuals etc" choice before I got the ability to print two sided. Given it proudly proclaims MS-DOS comparability on the self test page it must be pretty old...That thing (and the one toner cartridge I bought for it) will probably outlast the human race. It's a real crying shame that in the mid 00s that HP's kit went off a cliff as they used to be so utterly dependable.

I might well see if I can sell the Epson on. It's a really good little printer by modern consumer standards, IF you're a regular user. I just don't use it often enough to keep it happy it seems. To be honest given the fact it's one of the models with the bulk ink tank system (I've had to top it up once in 1500 pages and about two years) if you can find ten minutes to print off a couple of photos a week to keep the heads happy it's not going to cost anything in ink. That's all it probably needs done.

The other gripe I have with it is that the Linux comparability with it is *mostly* okay, but every now and then the scanner drivers decide to fall over and require me to recompile them for no readily explicable reason. It only takes five minutes, but it's still annoying... especially when you just want to quickly scan something for someone. Between it's tendency to be cranky if left idle for longer periods and flaky drivers...nope, time to switch to enterprise grade gear with proper official Linux driver and software support please.

Honestly not sure what it's worth, know I paid the best part of £300 for it about two years ago... probably about £20 given the rate consumer tech depreciates at! If anyone on here wants it I'm sure we can arrange something.

Looking forward to getting the new old HP set up. NOT looking forward to carrying it upstairs mind you, they weigh something like 45kg as I recall!