Practically Classics Forum

IIRC, Mercs went downhill fast when they took Chrysler over. I heard it was the bean counters that ruined things and, about three years ago, Merc did an about face as their sales were slipping due to quality issues. Was the ML a USA-built thing? I seem to remember Clarkson having a rant about its poor quality - as he did with all American cars!

I must admit, I half looked at Mercs when I got the current Golf. They tend to be less common around here, so have a premium price (though petrol ones are cheaper!)

I'm not 100% sure about Hondas either - a friend has had three or four Civics, so they can't be bad - he also had a more sporty one, but found it a bit expensive when he went near the Honda agents! I looked at a 2003 Civic when I bought the last Golf and couldn't see me doing much of my own maintenance - the engine bay was rather crowded to say the least! Honda do make good engines though (unless you have a McLaren) - but the one on my lawn mower annoys me and is more temperamental than the last mover's 2-stroke!

The W123 merc is an excellent car even if its the cheaper range of mercs. These were made up to 1988 I believe. Find a rust free one though. Best engine is the 2300 4 pot petrol. The diesels are slow. If speed is needed then a 6 pot 2800 cc engine is also good.

Bob.

Who doesn't like a solid W123 style Benz eh? But it would have to be W124 for me please! I like the 3 litre, 24 Valve Turbo Diesel best of all, much the same performance as the smaller IL6 petrol but loads of lovely torque so much more responsive to drive and, like all older Benz Diesels and surprisingly many of their CR ones too, it needs no modifications to run on veggie, filtered if it's used, as animal fats from whatever has been cooked before the oil was discarded from the fryers can stay around in the fuel lines and eventually cause the vehicular equivalent of arterial sclerosis.

South African built Mercedes can rot spectacularly, a friend has one that needed welding before its third birthday as the front damper mounts had started to peel away from the inner wing areas. It was repaired very publicly, in the car park at the supplying dealer's retail premises!

I don't like the style of the W124 the est looks ok though.
I have driven a few 124s and they do drive nice. However a W123 est with leather and electrics and sundym glass in dark blue with blue interior 2800 petrol auto. Is the bees knees. I would swap my Shadow for such a car.

I do less than 3000 miles a year so petrol is not an issue.

I really rate the W123 as probably one of the best cars made. Especially the estate. They with proper servicing last for years. Plus used bits are common and cheap.

Regards Bob

We are forgetting another worthy car. Volvo 240. An estate version is almost as good as a Merc W123 est. At a 1/4 of the price.

Bob

I've owned three 240 series cars and the same quantity of 140s, yes, they're a strong car but the fours are underpowered and the (90 degree) V6 is French and completely bonkers. Again, my favourite 240 is the Diesel, it's a 2.4 litre VAG engine, as found in some German trucks and gives a real performance edge over the IL4 petrols. The most reliable of the 240s I've had - and should have kept - was a very early 245DL which had the all iron, OHV B20A from the 120/140/P1800. It was very, very sluggish but drove like a sort of Swedish A60 in that it would sit at the speed limit all day long once it had got up there. The only problem that actually stopped that old beast stone dead was when the camshaft drive gear stripped a few more teeth than the crankshaft gear could bridge and it slipped, causing some black smoke, a few minor explosions and just managed to reach a layby. A new timing gear set was £90 from Volvo at the time, but Euro Car Parts supplied a genuine Volvo pair at a reasonable £55 and the job was done on a wet Monday afternoon by the side of the road. Only issue was that the front part of the sump gasket came away a little when I took the timing gear case off so it then dribbled a whole pint on the 40 mile trip back from the layby to my yard. Doubly annoying as this meant the case had to come off again but that time the whole sump gasket had to be replaced with a one-piece one from Volvo. £30! Ooshyabugger.

I dislike the 90 V8 engine with 2 cylinders chopped off due to fuel prices.

I have not driven the diesel one.

The 4 pot petrol one is fast enough for me.

Up and until a year ago, I owned 20 Merc Sprinters with the 2.9 diesel engines. Sprinters go like **** off a shovel. Everyone seems to have a story about a Sprinter overtaking them. The vans, which I owned with my brother, would give a fuel consumption of about 25mpg. My brother and I also had a van apiece. Strange how both of us could easily return 38mpg, nothing like ownership for motivation.

Somebody mentioned the Volvo, and someone else mentioned French cars. Did you know that the big Renault artic trucks, the 420/430 & 460, are Volvos. Built at the Volvo factory with the Renault name and part number on them. Even the Renault diamond logo on the grille is supplied by Volvo. Not that it's an unusual occurrence, Renault, for their part, make panel vans, identical to their own, they don't even try to alter the appearance. Next time you see a Vauxhall or Nissan van, compare it to the Renault.

Despite my drivers best efforts, the Merc vans could take any sort of punishment, unlike the Renault and it's variants. That said, the Renault (Volvo) truck was extremely reliable, they worked day and night, clocking up 100K miles a year. Strange how they were much cheaper than the Volvo equivalent, probably subsidised by the French taxpayer.