A Landy is reborn

[tractorman]

It's funny you should mention cam belt Willy, I mentioned it to the lads at the garage yesterday! Unfortunately, Kev seems to jinx my cars when he puts cam belts on them: the Passat lasted about a month and the last Golf didn't fare much better! Not, I hasten to add, that Kev made a couple of cock-ups: the Passat already had a problem and the Golf hit a cobble. I'm almost frightened to let Kev have another attempt - especially as I have just bought the f'ing thing!

There is a glimmer of hope though - I found a couple of sheets of paper with a webpage print out tucked in the dash. The printout was how to change the cam belt on a Montego. I will have a look at the belt in a day or two and, if it should show any signs of age, it will get changed ASAP. If not, it can wait a month or two!

I'm inclined to agree with "K" about 200s' mileage - the one that's local has done over the 100K and, considering a lot of them will be twenty or so years old, that's not too much of a surprise. I gather Disco mounts reduce the noise a lot but I suppose everything is relative to the racket that the Prima makes - or the silence of the Golf. I suspect the 4x45W stereo may be a tad inadequate! The stereo hasn't arrived yet, but the (cheap) speakers and various other bits are ready to fit - as and when I get round to it! Annoyingly, the man who is selling the "local tdi" doesn't know if it's a 200 or a 300. As Terry says, it's a major job to fit the 300 (I think I read that the 300 turbo won't fit, but the 200 turbo can be used - I may be wrong). I don't want to ask him the numbers so I can check - it's almost tyre-kicking as I don't want to buy an engine just yet!

Two priorities are to get an oil cooler sorted and fit a proper switch for the fan. Neither seem cheap, but there is only one pipe for the oil cooler - connected across inlet and outlet! I'm kinda toying with the idea of getting a nice new 200/300 tdi radiator and oil cooler and some pipe rather than a cheap cooler, thermostat and some baler twine. Then it's one thing less to worry about if I use the tdi engine; a neater solution if I don't use one and probably not much more expensive than a codge. I gather the engine's fittings are 1/2" BSP, which are easy to find, though I don't know about the ones on the radiator.

As an aside, I moved the trailer out of the "shed" this afternoon. The little tractor has done little other than move the trailer in the last few weeks and the battery was nearly flat when I started it! It still started more quickly then the Landy does! The trailer was a real pain to get out of the shed, so I'm glad I am changing the layout!

I must start making the "to do" list soon - it will stop me looking and finding things to buy and focus me on the things that need doing first! As I said to my friend, the reason for buying it was to be able to use it - restoration and improvements come second. There again, I must stop messing with the Landy anyway - I need to finish the shed so I can get the little tractor out of the garage and put the Landy in there. Of course, I'll have to alter things in the garage so the Landy will fit - there's a pillar drill that needs to be moved, but I don't know where I can put the dashed thing so it's out of the way but accessible when I drill large tractor bits.

[Willy Eckerslyke]

I will have a look at the belt in a day or two and, if it should show any signs of age, it will get changed ASAP. If not, it can wait a month or two!

The reason I mentioned it, was a friend went through half a dozen (no exhaggeration!) Prima engines, buying rusty Maestro vans and Montegos seemingly every other week. In increasing desperation, he'd drop one into his SII, fettle it for a while then look for another. I thought he'd gone barmy, but alcohol may have been involved. Anyway, one of them ran very nicely but only got him half a mile before the cam belt snapped. Another one literally went bang, throwing a main bearing shell onto the road. In the end, he gave up and fitted a standard 2 1/4 Land Rover diesel engine.
So it's my impression that Perkins Prima engines don't tolerate lack of maintenance or ham-fistedness. Also, they may be capable of pushing a Land Rover up to scary speeds, but you'll have a much easier life if you let the world pass you by at a steady 45mph.

[Richard Moss]

One thing that won't help is the rather black air filter! I think it's a Montego one (though it's 23 years since I wrote my Montego off, so I am not sure what they look like), but it has a part number on it, so I suspect that the local factors will be able to sort something out.

It hasn't got an intercooler (or oil cooler for that matter), so that's one thing less to check! However, I will go through things like heater plugs, check for air leaks etc and see if I can improve things before too long as it has to sit in front of the garage at the moment and it'll annoy the neighbours before long as I have to move it to get the Golf or tractor out.

That air filter box looks like the standard Montego one - the same as was used in the early Rover 820s. A blocked air filter will have a really negative effect on diesel performance and will lead to smoking from the exhaust, too. Fueling and boost can be adjusted manually and that may help and adding an intercooler would improve power output. I don't think that any of the Montegos had intercoolers but there's no reason why you couldn't fit one if wanted.

I may also be worth getting the injector pump timing checked - if it's set wrong then the performance will be shocking.

[tractorman]

The weather forecast had sunshine at 12:00 and 15:00. Unfortunately, it didn't say it would be wet between 13:00 and 13:30 and guess who was walking the dog at that time!

A bit more researching makes me think Willy has a point about the original diesel engine. I can understand the Prima's reliability problems when put in a Land Rover - there's a heck of a lot more weight to move about and the aerodynamics aren't exactly on a par with F1 cars! The alternative 200 Tdi has its own issues (again, an older design and will usually have done a lot of miles); the gearbox may not stand the strain of the extra torque (and application of that torque) for too long and a 5-speed conversion is wrought with problems - find the right box, chop chassis to fit, change seat frame and the list goes on! Annoyingly, there's a Disco engine and box on eBay at the moment with not many bids and reasonably close to me. I suspect that it's the wrong box - it was for an "abandoned project": he was going to put it in his "90" (or whatever).

As Richard says, the air filter is the Montego/Rover 825 one. I found the number on the old filter and plugged it into Google, who sent me to eBay for the cheapest one about (though carriage was more than the filter!). It only smokes on starting at the moment - though that should improve if I get the thing starting quickly.

I'm not sure about pump timing - though I hope to win a Montego/Maestro diesel book of lies on the bay this weekend, it may be of value for swatting flies if nothing else! Some of the Prime conversion articles suggest an intercooler can be fitted and would, with fuelling mods, take the engine to 110BHP or so. Of course, there's the downside of engine and gearbox reliability and reduced fuel consumption, so it still isn't the easy choice!

I've put the battery on charge (it may help starting too!). It's under the passenger seat, which makes it easier to remove, though it's a bit of a PITA when I want to charge it in situ (with the car being outside at the moment, so the doors need to be locked). I removed the interior light - a clear "Mini" indicator - probably a Massey Ferguson 135 sidelight if it was a farmer's machine before I got it! Annoyingly, my friend put two new sidelights on his 135 a year or two ago and they weren't cheap! The light used a S2A push-pull switch (as do the windscreen washers!), so they may be worth selling on the bay unless someone here wants them (dirt cheap + p&p). While some of the conversion has been done well, the feller wasn't an auto-electrician - he's used black cable for the feeds to the interior light and the washers and the feed goes through to the engine for something else! I was glad the battery was disconnected, though I should have checked where he picked the feed from: the 2-pin socket on the dashboard, with a self tapper holding the wire in place! I suspect a major rewire is in order - there are chocolate blocks and all sorts dotted about the engine bay and the Montego "engine management" panel is held in place by a single bolt (or self tapper) - perhaps that's part of the starting problem!

However, I have made a little progress on the shed - I dug a hole for the first new "stanchion" and treated the timber that will be used for purlings on the trailer side of the shed. So it hasn't all been messing with the Landy and surfing for information!

[SirTainleyBarking]

http://www.integerspin.co.uk/landrover.html

This is a good page from back in the day that gives the background about prima conversions.
Not a bad conversion despite what people think. Yes the 200Tdi is probably easier, but at the time, the 200Tdi was still a current engine, and the vehicles using it quite new. Therefore a choice between spending ££££'s to get a Tdi of unknown provenance out of a crashed Defender or buying a Deisel Montego shed for under £100, pulling the engine and weighing the rest, so pretty much getting the engine for free.. Ticks a bunch of boxes (Or did at the time)

[JPB]

Just to shatter the myth that the LR is heavier than the most common native application and potential donor, a Montego Estate with its Diesel engine as supplied:

Series 3 SWB LR with truck top: 1176Kg

Montego Estate with Diesel engine option and not including extra rear seats: 1202Kg

So it's not actually being asked to pull more weight at all and the lower gearing of the Land Rover means that the engine is, in fact, being required to do less work to achieve the same result and as such would last longer if fitted natively.

Weights from the 1981-1991 Autodata- ISBN: 0-85666-601-7

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Series 3 SWB LR with truck top: 1176Kg

That looks low to me.

I get this:
Unladen weight from 2953 lbs = 1340Kg
(note the 'from', which presumably means no roof at all)
Max. allowable vehicle weight 4453 lbs = 2020Kg.

According to the V5Cs of both of mine (SIII 109 & SIIa 88), max is 3500Kg which I wouldn't like to argue in court, but try hauling anything like that with a Montego and you won't get far, whereas a bog standard Series can certainly shift weights of that order.

[tractorman]

I think I saw the same figures as Willy, though he didn't mention the diesel is 140lbs heavier. I don't know how heavy the truck top is - I'll lift it one day and guesstimate it!

Mind you, I was thinking the Montego was just under the ton(ne), but then remembered I was thinking of my petrol saloon, which certainly felt light when it decided to ignore the brakes and hit the sandstone gate stoop that jumped out in front of it!

I realised (and ignored) the seat belts were more or less illegal - lap belts just bolted to the aluminium with nothing to spread the load. I've ordered some static 3-point ones and the necessary brackets this afternoon and parked the Landy in the back garden for now! Mind you, it was in the way when it was on the drive!

I took a drainage spade back to my farming friend this afternoon, using the Landy as it was on the drive. It started a little better - but still worse then the little tractor - and managed to get there and back without mishap. It did remind me that the gearbox is past it's prime - the selectors stick when it's been in reverse (a lot of stick wobbling frees it up) and there's no synchro on second gear (or first, but that's standard for a 2A). Perhaps the 200tdi isn't an option at the moment!

[kstrutt1]

Mine is an 88" petrol with station wagon sides, it also has lpg fitted, with a 1/4 tank petrol it weighed in at 1500kg. About the same as many moderrn focus sized cars, on this basis even 1340kg sounds a bit light.

Kevin

[SirTainleyBarking]

From the big Green Bible (Series 3 Repair operation Manual) - Written by a bunch of Brummies who work down Lode Lane
For an 88" with hard top (Petrol)

1338Kg unladen - Minimum without Fuel or Driver
1446Kg EEC Kerb Weight - Full tank and a 75Kg Driver
2120Kg Gross Vehicle Weight - Driver, full payload, and all passengers, equipment, Kitchen Sink and a pair of green wellies

Station wagon is 1418 Kg Unladen/ 1526Kg EEC / 2120Kgs Gross